DanceTalk Australia

[R2]

Question:
Why do The Stars of the night (finalists) have to pay extra to provide the attraction for the crowd coming to attend the ADS ball?
Why does ADS penalise elite couples making the finals forcing them to pay extra? Shouldn't these couples be rewarded for all the money and time spent on lessons and practice? In the civilised world if someone is the attraction, he/she/they are paid for it.
Someone will say $50 is for the entrance to the evening show and a meal. Last year there was an option of a ticket for $20 (which I still strongly disagree with, especially as couples weren't allowed to watch and support their friends dancing in other age categories and styles). Why are we forced to pay for food when someone may not want it (allergies to food served, vegetarians, vegans, someone not eating that late or the kind of food is served or just not being hungry while competing etc)?
Are we - the dancers for ADS or is the ADS for us? Who would they be without us - dancers?
Please don't be afraid to have a say and write what's your opinion on that topic.

PS
Do the entries close on 30th May as stated on page 1 of pdf available or on 28th May as stated in conditions of entry on page 4 and back to 30th May on pages 6 and 7.

[exdancer]

I agree with you - the finalists should not have to pay for the evening and their parents and guardians should get discounted tickets (especially of juniors who are required to have guardians there). I am sure the ADS doesn't come out of the evening out of pocket considering that they get support from sponsors paying out money!

I have to say that the Night of Stars over the last few years has certainly lost the glamour and reputation that the competition previously had.

[twoleftfeet]

I agree the Night of Stars could be great but not with the politics that has been evident over the past few years. All about money for ADS. Of course competitors should not have to pay to entertain the large audience attending to have a good time.
The only way I see this changing is for competitors to refuse to dance this competition. If everyone took a stand then the results would mean nothing.
Awards such as airfares etc to the Aussies should not be awarded for results of this one competiton but over the whole year. Some competitors only dance three styles to win the money. Is this fair>>> I dont think so.

[R2]

Thank you very much for your replies. Two answers already.

[KD]

I agree with you all the way R2. Most high level dancers are under enough financial strain as it is, they certainly don't need an extra fee forced upon them when they are providing entertainment for those who attend the night of stars.

I know I'm probably unusual in this sense, but I can't eat at all when I dance, so it definitely feels like a waste for me personally but that's besides the point.

The fact is the couples who are there to entertain every other person at the ball, should at the very LEAST have free entry (considering we'll have already payed for the day comp) before you even worry about the issue of a meal.

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, hopefully some good will come of it.

[aliance4life]

I must first say that your opinion is strong and is a worthy topic to discuss. Only having been involved with the world of dance for so long, I have little wisdom to shed on your questions but from what i have experianced, i can say that "The Night Of Stars" is suffering a major fault: pricing.

As a competitor i have great difficulty parting with such a price to compete, or spectate the night session for that matter. As fellow dancers will agree, lessons arn't cheap and either is getting to and from them, (not to mention the other costs associated with one of the most expensive sports going round.)

I acknowledge that the prize of a paid flight over east is very tempting to attain, but i see much more value in a cash prize to spend as we wish. I believe that this approach would attract not only more attention from competitors but create a greater atmosphere for all to spectate.

I agree with you completely, and hope that this discussion is taken in by the appropriate people, as it is not only "The Night Of Stars" that suffers from such faults, but various interstate competitions as well.

PS; love the last phrase "Are we - the dancers for ADS or is the ADS for us?"

[R2]

Almost 170 peers here on this topic in less than 3 days - not bad. There's an interest, it would be good if there was more replies. And you don't have to agree with me.

If someone thinks it doesn't affect him, I'd like to warn such people from being short blinded. This year it may be not affecting you as you or your kid/-s are just starting to dance/dance lower levels or you're dancing juvenile/youth/master events, but next year it may be about you or/and your kids.

I'd like also to add to the discussion that this year evening events are limited to Junior Open and Adult Open finals (and Adult Open semi final). So it's not a huge number of the Stars providing the attraction especially as quite a few of the couples (possibly all juniors) will be dancing in at least two if not all three finals.

[M1]

As someone who has attended the last 7 years I must agree the competitors should never be charged for the night. Wether or not they choose to eat when they are competing is of little relevance in that they do not physically have enough time in between events to actually eat, and especially if they are seriously competing for the trip as that requires all three styles to be danced and lets face it isnt that what the whole competition is about. So if you are then charging them for entry why do they spend the night locked out in the foyer of the hotel providing a wonderful spectacular for the hotel guests coming and going. I guess what i am asking is what are they being charged for? Also by the time you add up the cost of entries for 6 people 2 competitors and 2 parents each then the cost of raffles, drinks etc and not to mention the cost of costuming and makeup it is more than the $800.00 you offer as prize money. I personally attend to watch the dancers compete and to support them not ADS they really need to be more in touch with their members and more supportive of them.

[fun]

Couldn't agree more M1. Whilst I do realise the ADS need to cover their costs (which I believe is not an easy task for them), it would be nice to see a solution which didn't involve the primary attractions (ie, all of the dancers) contributing financially.

[exdancer]

I just had another thought - it is not easy for dancers to boycott the Night of Stars as it is a ranking event. There is now also money for the top ranked couples and haven't ADS provided money for the top couples that compete in ALL ADS competitions? Therefore by boycotting this event the dancers are actually diadvantaging themselves quite a bit. So it's a catch 22 situation with the ADS holding the ace.

[R2]

Hi exdancer,
I don't agree with you. You don't have to dance on every single event to win the DanceSport WA ranking. It's calculated as best 5 of 7 results. That's regarding the ranking case.
Now check how many couples danced recently all 3 styles in Adult category - it's regarding the $800 travel reimbursement. I don't see there Craig Denham, Antonio Mitchelli, Arkady, Arsen, Joshua Keefe, Sean van der Poel..., so people who will be defending/challenging for 1st places in modern, latin and new vogue. I don't know who of them exactly will be dancing, but they're recently the highest placed WA couples in their styles. These couples won't be fighting for main prize, but wouldn't/aren't they the one to watch?
Now regarding loosing the ADS scholarship by boycotting the comp. All of competitors can dance eventual (if there's enough couples) rounds and semifinals. In that case all of them attend the ADS competition and are able to apply for ADS scholarship for participating in all of their events (by the way isn't it buying the crowd?). There is a rule in the conditions of entry that you have to dance a final if you make it. But if someone suddenly is not feeling well, has just a small/little injury etc the organizers can't enforce that rule. How sick is the situation when it's a condition of entry that the couples have to dance a final? Shouldn't it be a normal thing that everyone wants to be there and fight for the first place?
Back to sick situation - would I pay $50 to dance final (especially dancing just one or two styles) if I'm not feeling well? Simple answer - No!!! Would I push myself to challenge for a title without paying? - Yes!!! (That's provided I'm not really seriously ill or injured).
Anyway whether you danced a final in the evening or decided not to (of course because of the "unfortunate" accident ) you still attended ADS event, had a run through before Canberra and are still entitled to apply for the ADS grant.

So is than the ADS really holding the ace?

Let's wait and see if there will be some mystical "virus" going on between semifinals and finals. I'd say the "ill" ones will feel so bad that they wouldn't be able to take advantage of the "sumptuous a la carte meal and dessert buffet". At the same time they are "some of the Australia's top DanceSport competitor's", so I'm sure they would go through the pain, sacrifice their wellbeing, forget about injuries just to dance the finals FREE of charge to make the attending crowd happy and provide great show/performance.

If I was someone competing (and I am), I wouldn't buy a ticket for the evening ball yet. It's the same prize on the day anyway. So just in case there was a "virus" going on maybe it's wiser to wait - at the end it doesn't cost anything extra. I'm also sure the ones that don't care that much about the whole case would still prefer to spend that $50 on extra lesson before Canberra.

I believe there's no ace case. It all depends from competitors and the possible "virus". If couples can stick together, unite and speak up loud I can bet that this "cancer" bringing this major local competition down systematically over the years can be healed.
Maybe even there will be some wise "doctor" from ADS reading our comments here and he/she/they will find an "antidote" before the 14th of June. From the previous opinions and talks I haven't heard a SINGLE happy person (except one master couple being happy that they have finals during the day, so they don't have to worry about attending the ball ).

[natural turn]

removed for purposes of keeping thread civilised.

--Djinni

[R2]

Yes, I am a competitive dancer for quite a long time now and with a bit of international experience. I'm Artur Komarnicki. People that know me well will tell you I'm the last to quit - just ask the Challenge Stadium's first aid people that worked last year during the WA Open who wanted to send me to hospital instead of seeing me on the floor dancing 3 rounds. Being a competitive dancer I point at an absolutely stupid condition of entry saying that the couples making it through into the final must dance in it. If I didn't want to be in a final and win, I wouldn't compete. Have you heard about any other sport discipline or other competitions where you have to pay to compete in a final you won place in? That's how in this case the organizers who already have sponsors for the event plus money from the couples competing during the day and people coming to attend the ball (where the top Australian amateur adult and junior dancers are providing the attraction and are used as a magnet to attract people to attend the ball) are ripping "the stars" of money.

I have received a lot of support and congratulations for speaking up from other competitors, parents and professionals - few here on a forum plus much more through e-mails and private conversations. I want to say here thank you to all of them for it. At the same time it's a shame that few of them, although being in the elite group of dancers (top of the open divisions in Australia), are afraid to speak up and make a post or send a letter as they fear of repercussions. I am from Eastern Europe and although I'm not that old I do remember and know how communism works - where there's no place for open discussion and where is the one and only truth. As far as I'm concerned I thought I live and study now in a free country with liberal, open market, uncensored press, radio, tv and internet where there's plenty of space for individualism, creativity and where freedom of speech is valued. It looks like it's different with the dancing world here if people that are just to put it into the nice words UNHAPPY are afraid and feared to speak up.

Anyway my new partner and I decided that we're withdrawing our entry from the Night of Stars. I was considering what few other competitors suggested - dancing during the day and boycotting the finals, but it wouldn't be fair on the other competitors if I made a final and took some other couple's place and then not compete while someone else could be happy to be there. Someone told me it wouldn't be fair on the organizers too - to be honest I do not care about the organizers that don't care about the couples. $140 per couple to dance such event (especially if someone is doing only one style) is in my opinion and not only an insult plus it's almost one way ticket to Melbourne or covers more than the entry fee per couple for The International Championships in England (2 tickets per one day of qualification rounds plus 2 free tickets to the Royal Albert Hall for the next day rounds: quarter, semi and final - that's if you're good enough to make it through the first day).

[Filcha]

I am not saying I agree 100% with R2 but I would like to congratulate him for having the guts to name himself and stand up for what he believes in.
_________________
Kind regards,
Filcha

[natural turn]

I am saying I don't agree with him...Are you telling me I don't have the guts to stand up??? Artur talks about this sport being the only one that competitors pay for entry, what about motor sport, they pay hundreds of dollars just to walk through the gate, then the other expenses. It's the game we're in, as I said, don't like take up knitting. One thing I do agree with you Artur is your conviction, so many are sheep. Why not get yourself a sponsor, it'll help, I know I did it once. Artur, why not be a part of an organizing committee for an event, see what happens, see how hard it is, then make comments. I've done both ( a competitor and event manager) so have the qualifications to comment. Oh and I do have the guts to stand up, always have, always will, I'm Stephen Oates